Do you get to send criminal scum to prison and destroy their lives as a first year law student at UBC?
every accused is innocent until proven guilty doe.
UBC is one of the few schools I think that allows 1st years to volunteer at legal clinics (LSLAP). it's a pretty good chance to get out there and close some files because most people come to you with issues which fall outside the LSLAP mandate ("there's a long list of issues LSLAP does not assist with). As a result on in one evening you could talk to 5 people and close 4-5 of them on the spot. However, there are often some very interesting files that pop up too that you could get transferred to you from other clinics.
Also if you are wondering, we do assist with criminal matters. However, if it's possible for the accused to end up in prison, we can't help them (they qualify for free legal aid). This was a big relief for me because I was scared of messing something up and sending some innocent person to prison.
Are you at all concerned about the current job market?
Yeah, I've thought about it even before school started, because I read a lot of the horror stories too. To that end I notice that the majority (if not all) of articles you see on the news about articling shortages (1 year apprenticeship req before you are licensed) comes from Ontario. Indeed that makes the most sense since Ontario has no fewer than 6 established law schools (plus a new one, Lakehead est 2012) with class sizes much bigger than BC. E.g. UOttawa has 300, Osgoode has 280, UBC has 180.
Anyway, getting back to BC. On the first week they distributed articling statistics for us and they said that 93% (not sure if exact but it was definitely in the mid to upper 90s) of students from the 2012 graduating class looking for articles, found them. That means that 93% of students looking found the articles within a year. It's usually typical of schools to fudge statistics like that or use deceptive wording, but I struggle to find ambiguity in that statement. Two semi-plausible ones I could think of is 1)they have a very narrow definition of looking--e.g. you are sending out 30+ applications a week, or 2)they include number of students possibly doing it for free or close to free to make it look better than it is (more likely than the first IMO).
I've been told by some lawyers I've met that it's true jobs are increasingly getting harder to come by in Vancouver, but if you are willing to goto more rural areas there are still jobs out there, both in private practice and in prosecution.
So yeah, I've thought about it, but then I ask, what's the alternative? What kind of jobs are easy to comeby these days? People will be quick to point out the trades, but is that really true? I haven't looked at the job prospects but is a career of physical labour really so appealing?
Even in Ontario with all of the problems they're having I think it's still only 10-20% of students every year who are unable to find articles, an 80-90% success rate doesn't sound so bad to me. And there's hope that we are moving away from the law school application boom since the number of applicants have been declining since 2012:
So after all that I can say that it helps a lot that I enjoy what I'm studying but I'm definitely worried about jobs. Things probably aren't as bad as out here compared to Ontario, but I struggle to find better alternatives out there for me.
Did you fail any of your undergrad courses in SFU?
Im still not really sure what the process is for failed courses....for example, if i fail a course, and then retake it and receive an A+ on it, would UBC look at both of the times I have taken the single course and blend it? Can't I simply use the 12 credit deduction policy, and just take out the failed course out?
Did you fail any of your undergrad courses in SFU?
Im still not really sure what the process is for failed courses...
Nope, never. I've heard people talk about how UBC (not law) handles retakes though and it seems like they take the average between the two courses. Don't take my word on this though because I've never received confirmation.
And yes, you can use the 12 credits dropped to include any failed courses. This makes repeating courses a big time and money waster IMO, because you are better off using time to improve on your LSAT. Even a single point increase on the LSAT will result in a sizable improvement to your chances due to the 50-50 formula.
People who work at the shipyards in Vancouver's harbours make more than lawyers, just saying. But yeah, it probably is extremely hard physical work compared to lawyers.
Are there big scholarships for law school? Did you get one?
I think it depends on the school. UBC is not known for having very big scholarships, but apparently there's been a pretty generous needs-based bursary program. Student Loans for law school in BC do not provide a lot, and often times they are not enough to cover the entire tuition. So UBC has provided a bursary based on your unmet need as calculated by the government. Not sure if it covers all of the unmet need, but one thing I can say for sure is busaries are available.
Not sure if I talked about it yet but UBC has among the lowest tuition for law school in Canada (thanks to the Provincial Government's 2% cap on tuition). This year tuition for two terms was $12,249 after all of the fees, not including books. For comparison Osgoode in Toronto is $21,000 this year and that's not including fees.
And nope no scholarship for me. Pretty sure my entrance stats weren't even in the right time zone lol.
Holy shit. So it's like double to triple regular undergrad tuition. hot damn. So basically if you don't get a scholarship and can't afford it you have to be working a good paying job? But wouldn't that jeopardize your grades?
So basically if you don't get a scholarship and can't afford it you have to be working a good paying job? But wouldn't that jeopardize your grades?
Oh not at all. I'm sorry I should have mentioned this, but the banks have been offering pretty generous line of credits to law students. Basically they give you a really big credit card and you only pay interest on the money that you spend. The interest rates are usually pretty sweet too, like prime + 1-3%.
You could also take a year off to save some money. Don't forget that law school only runs from September to April so there's a chance to make some dough in the summer and during 2nd year (where it's more common to work as I understand).
Do UVIC and UBC take into account the 15 credits from CRIM 462 (field practice) when looking at your application to law school? Or any law school for that matter?
Or do they omit those credits because they are from field practice?
Do UVIC and UBC take into account the 15 credits from CRIM 462 (field practice) when looking at your application to law school? Or any law school for that matter?
Or do they omit those credits because they are from field practice?
I'm sorry I don't know, never had those credits. It sounds like it's quite important to your application though so I would recommend you giving a call to the schools you are interested in. I doubt those field practice credits are very rare so they should have an answer for you quickly.
How many years did it take you to finish your Crim degree?
5.
I assume this question comes from an interest in how schools look at course loads so I'll answer it like that.
Most courses I have taken in a term is 4, had some where I took 3 or 2.
In the west, course loads were generally not a factor when I was applying. I know UBC and UVic didn't talk about course loads on their websites, so I doubt it was even on their radars.
Some schools in the east advertised that they like their students to take 5 courses per term. However, I applied to two Ontario schools and got in so I doubt it's too much of an issue. I just told them that there's no relationship between my course loads and my grades and that I worked throughout undergrad, so it might be worth talking about on your PS if you feel like it's a problem.
I'm not saying you should just take 2 courses per term until you graduate in light of what I said because school comes with a big opportunity cost too, and who knows if schools would change their policies before you graduate. Better to just get undergrad over with and move onto doing what you want to.
And I kinda doubt whether taking fewer courses actually means you'll do better. Seems like the more time you have the more time you spend on doing other things instead of school.
Comments
Do you get to send criminal scum to prison and destroy their lives as a first year law student at UBC?
every accused is innocent until proven guilty doe.
UBC is one of the few schools I think that allows 1st years to volunteer at legal clinics (LSLAP). it's a pretty good chance to get out there and close some files because most people come to you with issues which fall outside the LSLAP mandate ("there's a long list of issues LSLAP does not assist with). As a result on in one evening you could talk to 5 people and close 4-5 of them on the spot. However, there are often some very interesting files that pop up too that you could get transferred to you from other clinics.
Also if you are wondering, we do assist with criminal matters. However, if it's possible for the accused to end up in prison, we can't help them (they qualify for free legal aid). This was a big relief for me because I was scared of messing something up and sending some innocent person to prison.
Yeah, I've thought about it even before school started, because I read a lot of the horror stories too. To that end I notice that the majority (if not all) of articles you see on the news about articling shortages (1 year apprenticeship req before you are licensed) comes from Ontario. Indeed that makes the most sense since Ontario has no fewer than 6 established law schools (plus a new one, Lakehead est 2012) with class sizes much bigger than BC. E.g. UOttawa has 300, Osgoode has 280, UBC has 180.
Anyway, getting back to BC. On the first week they distributed articling statistics for us and they said that 93% (not sure if exact but it was definitely in the mid to upper 90s) of students from the 2012 graduating class looking for articles, found them. That means that 93% of students looking found the articles within a year. It's usually typical of schools to fudge statistics like that or use deceptive wording, but I struggle to find ambiguity in that statement. Two semi-plausible ones I could think of is 1)they have a very narrow definition of looking--e.g. you are sending out 30+ applications a week, or 2)they include number of students possibly doing it for free or close to free to make it look better than it is (more likely than the first IMO).
I've been told by some lawyers I've met that it's true jobs are increasingly getting harder to come by in Vancouver, but if you are willing to goto more rural areas there are still jobs out there, both in private practice and in prosecution.
So yeah, I've thought about it, but then I ask, what's the alternative? What kind of jobs are easy to comeby these days? People will be quick to point out the trades, but is that really true? I haven't looked at the job prospects but is a career of physical labour really so appealing?
Even in Ontario with all of the problems they're having I think it's still only 10-20% of students every year who are unable to find articles, an 80-90% success rate doesn't sound so bad to me. And there's hope that we are moving away from the law school application boom since the number of applicants have been declining since 2012:
http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/three-year-volume
and the number of LSATs administered have been declining for a few years:
http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/lsats-administered
So after all that I can say that it helps a lot that I enjoy what I'm studying but I'm definitely worried about jobs. Things probably aren't as bad as out here compared to Ontario, but I struggle to find better alternatives out there for me.
Im still not really sure what the process is for failed courses....for example, if i fail a course, and then retake it and receive an A+ on it, would UBC look at both of the times I have taken the single course and blend it? Can't I simply use the 12 credit deduction policy, and just take out the failed course out?
Im still not
really sure what the process is for failed courses...
Nope, never. I've heard people talk about how UBC (not law) handles retakes though and it seems like they take the average between the two courses. Don't take my word on this though because I've never received confirmation.
And yes, you can use the 12 credits dropped to include any failed courses. This makes repeating courses a big time and money waster IMO, because you are better off using time to improve on your LSAT. Even a single point increase on the LSAT will result in a sizable improvement to your chances due to the 50-50 formula.
I think it depends on the school. UBC is not known for having very big scholarships, but apparently there's been a pretty generous needs-based bursary program. Student Loans for law school in BC do not provide a lot, and often times they are not enough to cover the entire tuition. So UBC has provided a bursary based on your unmet need as calculated by the government. Not sure if it covers all of the unmet need, but one thing I can say for sure is busaries are available.
Not sure if I talked about it yet but UBC has among the lowest tuition for law school in Canada (thanks to the Provincial Government's 2% cap on tuition). This year tuition for two terms was $12,249 after all of the fees, not including books. For comparison Osgoode in Toronto is $21,000 this year and that's not including fees.
And nope no scholarship for me. Pretty sure my entrance stats weren't even in the right time zone lol.
to be working a good paying job? But wouldn't that jeopardize your
grades?
Oh not at all. I'm sorry I should have mentioned this, but the banks have been offering pretty generous line of credits to law students. Basically they give you a really big credit card and you only pay interest on the money that you spend. The interest rates are usually pretty sweet too, like prime + 1-3%.
You could also take a year off to save some money. Don't forget that law school only runs from September to April so there's a chance to make some dough in the summer and during 2nd year (where it's more common to work as I understand).
Or do they omit those credits because they are from field practice?
practice) when looking at your application to law school? Or any law
school for that matter?
Or do they omit those credits because they are from field practice?
I'm sorry I don't know, never had those credits. It sounds like it's quite important to your application though so I would recommend you giving a call to the schools you are interested in. I doubt those field practice credits are very rare so they should have an answer for you quickly.
5.
I assume this question comes from an interest in how schools look at course loads so I'll answer it like that.
Most courses I have taken in a term is 4, had some where I took 3 or 2.
In the west, course loads were generally not a factor when I was applying. I know UBC and UVic didn't talk about course loads on their websites, so I doubt it was even on their radars.
Some schools in the east advertised that they like their students to take 5 courses per term. However, I applied to two Ontario schools and got in so I doubt it's too much of an issue. I just told them that there's no relationship between my course loads and my grades and that I worked throughout undergrad, so it might be worth talking about on your PS if you feel like it's a problem.
I'm not saying you should just take 2 courses per term until you graduate in light of what I said because school comes with a big opportunity cost too, and who knows if schools would change their policies before you graduate. Better to just get undergrad over with and move onto doing what you want to.
And I kinda doubt whether taking fewer courses actually means you'll do better. Seems like the more time you have the more time you spend on doing other things instead of school.