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AI and Self Awareness

edited March 2008 in General
Currently there are a lot of projects researching AI. Most are geared towards the Turing Test. The object of which is simply to see if a computer can hold a conversation with a human without being recognised as a computer.

There are 2 principle paths being used, top down and bottom up. Top down means giving the computer a big database, like an encyclopeadia and a dictionary and a basic set of rules. The computer than 'learns' how to access information and put it together in a meaningful way. Bottom up means building a machine with the capacity to learn and teaching it.
Top down systems seem to be good for producing expert systems, intelligent search engines and that kind of thing. But not self aware.
The best of the bottom up devices are still in their infancy. It takes a few years to get any real intelligence from a child. Its going to be the same with these, probably longer because they dont have some of our inbuilt hard wiring.

What do the rest of you think, are self aware machines possible?

Comments

  • edited March 2008
    i wouldnt rule anything out, i hav very little knowledge in this field, but its probably one of those things, 'given enough time, it will be done'

    too much human/physical capital dedicated to these projects to fail over the long run
  • edited March 2008
    Saying a computer is intelligent is totally different from saying it's self-aware. With that out of the way, the Turing test is not an appropriate test for determining a computer's self-awareness. It's merely a test for whether or not a computer can maintain a conversation humanly. Some even reduce the test to being able to follow a set of instructions within a set of rules. I don't have intimate knowledge of the test, however, I know that it would take at least a good 50 years before any computer passes the Turing test.

    Self-awareness is very different and I actually doubt whether any computer will become self-aware in the absolutely human sense. The fundamental thing is being aware of being aware of being. It would be impossible to make a computer program for this ability. I sincerely doubt something such as self-awareness can be simulated in a computer program.
  • edited March 2008
    As a CS student I can tell you that in no way will a computer every be able to think like a human. They are limited to a set of rules to which they have to follow. A computer could act like a human because it was told in every situation how it should respond but it could not be like a human in the sense that it never has any intentionality.
  • edited March 2008
    So, if a computer could be built that effectively simulates the brain function of a human, you would deny that it "thinks like a human"?
    You say computers are limited to a set of rules that they have to follow. One could claim that humans are limited to a set of rules that they "have to follow" based on their genes and the physical makeup of their brains.
  • edited March 2008
    We can never know for certain whether something is self-aware or not right now. So even if we did "succeed" into making a computer that is aware of its own existence, there's no way we can prove it.
  • edited March 2008
    That's true. We can't really know for certain whether anything but ourselves has a mind.
  • edited March 2008
    Personally, I think theres one key characteristic which distinguishes a computer from a brain, which is that the former is a mechanical device and the latter is a biological device. Computer processors may one day be able to achieve a level of speed and efficiency which would allow them to "think" as fast as we can, but they would never be able to think like we can. This "artificial intelligence" would therefore never be able to think and act at the level of a human being. Unless...we discover how to create a biological computer. That's gonna be the revolution I think. They day technologically starts heading towards a biological future, man and machine will start to work together (chips embeded in our bodies etc.) and then AI will be possible...but then it probably won't be distinguishable as a distinct entity seperate from us...it will be us.
  • edited March 2008
    judgment day is upon us!
  • edited March 2008
    We wouldn't know whether a computer is thinking mechanically or biologically anyways. Human personality is so varied and everyone can act differently from the same situation, so it would be tough to set the criteria for something to "think like a human."

    But a cyborg would be cool.
  • edited March 2008
    Ok, a few things here

    1) Turing test this only tests whether it simulates a human's actions, not whether it actually thinks like a human. This is nowhere near a measure for AI.

    2) Machine vs. Biology this dichotomy rests on the false assumption that there is any difference of substance between a machine and our brains. The machines may not yet be as sophisticated, or as fast, or as capable, but I don't doubt that we will one day be able to simulate (note, not "emulate") our brains with machinery, or even surpass it (quantum computing). So it is entirely possible to have a non-biological computer which is in every other regard human.

    3) computers follow rules, humans follow...nothing? no, we both follow rules. the difference is that our rules are far more sophisticated than the best software of the day. But just because we can't yet simulate our brain's complexities, doesn't mean we can never do so.

    4) Human variation Is there ANY reason at all to believe that computer programs, sufficiently advanced, will not vary as much as humans do? No there isn't.

    5) Self awareness this is one part of being AI, but certainly not the definitive component (I don't think there is one definitive component, btw), I (or anyone, for that matter) could write a "self-aware" program in some tens of lines, and definitely no more than 100 lines, right this moment. It's far from being AI, though.

    Now to address OP, so far AI work have focused on observing human behaviour and then trying to write code that make the machines emulate that behaviour, with this approach we'll never get AI, we might get computers that act 100% like humans, including the illusion of free will, but it will still not be AI. The real way to program AI is to examine the very qualities that make US human, the way we learn, think, etc, and copying that onto machine, and letting them decide by themselves how their behaviour will turn out to be. It may be very different from our own, but it'll be truly a product of artificial intelligence, and not that of emulation.
  • edited March 2008
    primexx;24731 said:

    3) computers follow rules, humans follow...nothing? no, we both follow rules. the difference is that our rules are far more sophisticated than the best software of the day. But just because we can't yet simulate our brain's complexities, doesn't mean we can never do so.

    I guess it depends on what rules you are referring to. Humans have the choice do otherwise and not follow biological rules. Like if we are hungry, we can choose to eat or not to eat. Or when it comes to moral and ethical rules, we may choose to do something due to reasons beyond what's supposedly "programmed" in our head.

    For a computer to do the same, they would first have to have self-awareness. They would have to develop their reasons for their choices and also be able to choose to do otherwise (not by random).
  • edited March 2008
    Shi2;24740 said:
    I guess it depends on what rules you are referring to. Humans have the choice do otherwise and not follow biological rules. Like if we are hungry, we can choose to eat or not to eat. Or when it comes to moral and ethical rules, we may choose to do something due to reasons beyond what's supposedly "programmed" in our head.

    For a computer to do the same, they would first have to have self-awareness. They would have to develop their reasons for their choices and also be able to choose to do otherwise (not by random).
    well, how do you choose to disregard biological rules, or to make moral judgements? there's still a set of instructions that ultimately govern your behaviour and choices, it's just how it necessarily works.

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